Chasing Polaris-People 01: Nurturing Two Trees in Your Career to Navigate the Winds of Change

Dr. Naisi Zhao, Assistant Professor in the Department of Public Health at Tufts University School of Medicine

Dr. Naisi Zhao, an Assistant Professor in the Department of Public Health at Tufts University School of Medicine, has transitioned from the field of economics to Public Health over many years. In this process, she discovered her own life's purpose within the realm of chronic disease research.

W: After graduating in economics from BYU, why did you suddenly decide to work on a public health project, especially when it had no connection to what you had done or learned before? I'm curious about what inspired you to do something different, and how did the inspiration lead you to your current field?

N: That's an interesting question, and I think the trigger may have come from a discussion I had with my mother. When I was working at the investment company, our family lived in Minhang, which, for those who have lived or traveled in Shanghai, is quite far from the Bund. The company was definitely located in the Bund area, so I had to take a long subway ride to work every day. I would often finish work around 7 or 8 pm, come home to eat dinner around 9 pm, and then continue working, often very late into the night. I was quite unhappy during that time.

But later, when I started working in public health, it was actually more challenging. I would often carry a suitcase and take long train rides, sometimes for several weeks at a time, working day and night. My mother jokingly asked me, "Do you find this job painful now?" I replied, "No, I find it very interesting." She said, "It seems that it's not the length of the work that causes pain, but whether you like the work." I said, "Yes."

Of course, working at the investment company was meaningful in its own way, but perhaps because I was just an intern at the time, I felt like I was doing a lot of repetitive tasks that didn't immediately show the meaning of the work. I thought, even if we did well at work and made money for clients, what is the next? So, I was quite confused.

After my internship ended, I looked for various opportunities and had conversations with different teachers. It was during this time that I met Professor Weng Yongkai, who had a significant impact on me. He was the founder of the Loving Heart Foundation and was involved in many important charity activities in Beijing, including a lot of health promotion work in rural areas. I didn't know what it would be like to go to rural Henan at that time, but I was willing to give it a try. So, I went. After arriving, I had many interesting life experiences and faced many health challenges that people in the community were dealing with.

For example, there was an elderly lady I met who had been living with diabetes for many years. From the first time she went to see a doctor and was diagnosed with diabetes, she received medication to take home. However, she didn't go for a checkup until seven years later. She had been taking the same medication for seven years, perhaps because she didn't want to see a doctor, or for various other reasons, or because she didn't have the right opportunity to seek medical care. When she finally went for her second checkup after seven years, she had already gone blind due to diabetes. Through my interactions with her and others, I was deeply moved and felt that the price she paid was unnecessary. After losing her sight, she lived a very limited life in the countryside, sitting in front of her door in the sun after meals and then going to bed. She lost so much in life due to diabetes and blindness.

When we have so many technological and treatment methods available, how can we prevent such tragedies from happening? It was from that point onwards that I started to think that maybe this is the so-called meaning I found—perhaps we can really help everyone become healthier through our efforts and bring some positive things into people's lives.

After returning from the rural area, I pursued a Master's degree in Public Health and Economics at Johns Hopkins University. Later, I went on to earn a Ph.D. in Public Health at Tufts University School of Medicine to fulfill my goals. Initially, I had a relatively clear idea of wanting to work in Washington, D.C. after completing my Ph.D. Although my current role leans more towards being a producer of scientific evidence, my initial plan was to become an applied science evidence practitioner, often referred to as a "knowledge broker." This role isn't about producing scientific evidence or making final policy decisions; rather, it's somewhat like being an intermediary. My job would involve refining and packaging scientific evidence so that it could play a more prominent role in the policy-making process.

Unfortunately, when I was nearing the end of my postdoctoral work, evidence-based policy became less supported, and opportunities in Washington, D.C. suddenly diminished. This external environmental change had a significant impact on my career prospects. Consequently, I quickly decided to explore other opportunities. Fortunately, I had the opportunity to do a postdoc at the university, which was a good option. Later, I had the chance to stay on and do the work I am doing now.

W: You had set your goal long in advance, and you had been working towards it for a while. Suddenly, there was a change in the external environment, which could have been a significant setback for you at the time. How did you quickly adjust your mindset and seize the next opportunity?

N: In this regard, I had a strategy I had developed for myself. During the early stages of my Ph.D., I had a heavy course load, so I spent most of my days on campus. Sometimes, during lunch breaks when I was feeling particularly fed up with studying, I would go and chat with professors. One teacher, who had a significant impact on me, shared his own career planning strategy with me. He called it "planting two trees"—one tree represents the topics you are interested in, and the other tree represents the methods or skills you are good at.

He, as a researcher and university professor, categorized all his work into two types: one helped him research topics he was interested in, and the other strengthened his own methods and skills. He referred to this as "you plant two trees," and then all the work he did after that was aimed at nurturing these two trees.

My area of interest was the prevention and prediction of chronic diseases and policymaking to help people lead healthier lives and improve their environments. My other tree was having expertise in data analysis. I had received good training in this area from my undergraduate years, and I had a strong foundation. So, I told myself that I couldn't abandon this expertise. Regardless of the opportunities that would come my way, I needed to find ways to water this tree. When I had the opportunity to work on my topic, I would focus on that. However, when the external environment wasn't ideal or didn't provide enough opportunities and resources for my topic, I would utilize my technical expertise and participate in others' projects. This way, I could keep moving forward.

So, during my Ph.D., even though my doctoral thesis was focused on a highly policy-oriented topic, I also worked on several smaller projects related to data analysis. While this increased my workload, the benefit was that when I completed my Ph.D., if I had the chance to do policy research, I could build on the foundation of my thesis. If that opportunity didn't arise, my work during my Ph.D. had honed my expertise in methodology.

In the end, when external conditions changed, I quickly found a postdoctoral opportunity through my data analysis skills. Gradually, I ended up in my current job. Ultimately, I hope to connect these two trees, but for now, I aim to keep nurturing both of them.

W: Lastly, I'd like to ask if you have any advice or insights to share with friends who are trying to find their North Star in this field?

N: I wouldn't call it advice, but perhaps some personal insights:

I've learned that life is like a marathon, and we don't need to rush to find all the answers immediately. It's a lifelong journey of learning, growing, and evolving. Sometimes, we proactively seek change, while at other times, circumstances force us to change passively. My general mindset is to look forward, although the process can be challenging.

I'd like to show you two paintings hanging on my wall, which I wrote for myself. One says, "Don't be afraid; magic happens," and the other says, "In a field of flowers, she is a wild flower." This emphasizes not being afraid to be someone who stands out and doesn't quite fit in with others. Life is an ongoing process of learning and growth. When opportunities come your way, don't be afraid to try new things. Often, we are climbing a spiral staircase, and with each confident step forward, we both move ahead and upward.

I work in epidemiological analysis of chronic diseases, and my entry point is omics data, such as genomics and DNA methylation, as well as epidemiological data. I can truly feel the excitement of entering the era of big data. A decade ago, many of our testing methods were relatively expensive, but now they have become much more affordable. Moreover, there are more advanced methods that can capture more information, offering a wealth of biological data.

I'm very excited about this because traditional epidemiology often studies the form and patterns of diseases in populations, but the relationship between causes and effects can be distant. For instance, studying whether your eating habits today will lead to diabetes ten years from now involves a significant gap. However, with the abundance of big data and omics data, it's like opening a small window. Using this biological data, we can describe the cause-and-effect chain more clearly. Through this window, we can see how what we eat affects our microbiota, which in turn triggers various psychological responses, ultimately leading to a risk of diabetes. I find this fascinating.

I'm eager to move forward in the direction of big data, including AI and many new models. I hope for opportunities to learn and use these data and models to create better tools to help people manage and intervene in their health more effectively.

W: It feels like you're a shining star when you talk about your dream.